Tuesday, March 1, 2011

The opposite of what I like - Wanda Ottewell, Senior Editor Superromance

Last blog I promised that we’d tackle some of the things I don’t like to see in stories. To be honest, I’m a little worried this post will become negative, and I don’t want to be the downer in the group! So to counter that, let’s all say out loud from the start: We love to read romance books! Say it again, for good measure. Go on, do it (and ignore the funny looks your kids and coworkers are tossing your way). I think it’s important to remember we love these stories before we start itemizing what we can’t stand.


So, love of the genre firmly in place, let’s talk about what drives us crazy.


One of the things that can make me put down a manuscript or a book in no seconds flat is silly characters who act in unbelievable ways. You know the ones who have no justification or rationale for acting the way they do. The ones who seem to defy all logic when they take action or make a decision or assess a situation. What is that acronym? TSTL—too stupid to live. Who can relate to those characters? And if I can’t relate, it’s impossible to get into the story.


Closely related to that pet peeve are those secondary characters who are merely plot devices. They have only one purpose—whether it’s to reveal a single piece of information, complicate the conflict (or, worse, be the conflict) or make the situation worse. They seem to be conveniently dropped on the page, do their bit and disappear without ever giving the sense that they are fully developed characters or that they even belong in the story. Usually when I encounter these characters, I strongly encourage the author to integrate the character in the story (which usually means fleshing out him/her) or cutting him/her entirely and finding a different way to unfold the plot.


Repetition is a huge issue for me. I don’t mean the kind of strategic, deliberate repetition that creates effect or escalates tension. I’m talking about the other kind: overused words, phrases, gestures, actions, scene set-ups, etc. that litter a story. Repetition sends the message the author has nothing more to say. No more words to use, no more actions to describe (and, by extension, the character has no other reactions), no more events to relate. And if there’s nothing more to say, why keep writing and why should the reader keep reading? I confess I nag about this…a lot (authors who have worked with me are nodding their heads and rolling their eyes!). I believe it’s important to be articulate, to relate the story in an engaging, unique way and to give the reader a varied experience. There is one author whose stories I love (and no, I’m not revealing names). Despite how much I love her books, I can’t read them too close together because she has a couple of phrases her characters—all her characters—repeat. Guaranteed in every book these phrases will occur at least four times. And it so happens that the phrases drive me nuts!


I’m not a fan of putting narrative focus on characters’ movements through a scene and on inanimate objects. Yes, there needs to be a certain amount of description of the characters moving and relevant objects in the scene to set the stage in the reader’s mind and prevent the characters from being talking heads. However, when a character who is already frowning frowns again…and again…and again in the same scene, well, that’s annoying. And if I know more about the movement of a coffee cup (cup filled with coffee, sugar and cream stirred in, cup lifted to mouth, cup put on table, cup fiddled with, up to the mouth again, etc.) than the point of view character’s inner reactions to the unfolding events, then I want to scream. Gestures (the throwaway kind such as nodding, frowning, smiling/grinning, etc.) and shifting inanimate objects don’t make a scene active. They don’t add tension to a scene. They don’t advance the plot. And they rarely reveal character. Their role is to provide backdrop, to fill in scene detail, and as such, they should receive only that much attention and no more.


There are other qualities that I don’t like to see, but I think it’s time to turn it over to you.


Tell me about what make you throw a book against the wall in disgust and what makes you decide to take a writer off your auto-buy list. And because we love this genre (say it one more time!), let’s keep it general and anonymous—no outing of specific books or authors. You know that old saying about one person’s garbage... ;-)


Let the discussion begin!

63 comments:

liztalley said...

What a reader (or editor) doesn't like in a story honestly helps as much as what she does like, so this is a terrific post, Wanda.

It's okay. You can say it's Liz Talley who repeats over and over and over. I think perhaps no one listens to me much, so I'm forced to drive my point home. Over and over and over. Plus, I'm Southern which means we have a saying for everything...and we use it. Frequently. LOL. This is my particular downfall. I'm working on it:)

Okay, what I don't like:

I don't like books that make me expect one thing from a character then he/she does something so out of character it doesn't feel legitimate. Hate that. I also dislike when there is so much going on within the story that I can't enjoy the characters. I think with the demands of "get to the action" some authors miss the chance to build their characters, and readers fall in love with characters. And I absolutely HATE heroines (particularly) who are TSTL. Hey, she can make a mistake as long as she realizes she was stupid.

Okay, off to get coffee. Hope the comment makes sense. I usually need a healthy dose of caffiene before my brain can work.

Thanks for being here, Wanda. Can't wait to see what everyone else hates in a book:)

Wanda Ottewell said...

Good morning, everyone!

As always, it's fab to be here with all of you. Unfortunately, I'm only "here" this morning. I've had something come up that will have me away from my desk for the afternoon. Bummer.

Obviously I'll participate in the discussion while I can. And I'll pop in over the next day or so to follow up.

So please keep the discussion going!

Wanda Ottewell said...

Hey, Liz,

Let me assure you, you are not the anonymous author, LOL! This author writes for a different publisher and every time I read one of those pet phrases of hers I think, "I would have edited that out." That happens sometimes when I'm reading. I think about how I would have edited the book and what direction I would have asked the author to take. Obviously that happens only when I'm reading a story that I'm not that into.

I completely agree with you that characters can have dumb moments or moments when they do something they wouldn't ordinarily do. But the key is self-awareness--the character has to be aware that he/she did this stupid thing. Even if he doesn't know why he acted that way, as long as he recognizes he shouldn't have and/or regrets the outcome of his actions, I'm willing to stick it out.

And, yes, I don't like the plot to take over the story. I've had this interesting experience in the past couple of months. I picked up a book by a new author and realized a few chapters in that it was the second to last book in a five-book series. I was intrigued enough to pause reading that story and start at the beginning of the series and have been reading all the books back to back. Individually the stories are more plot-driven than I usually prefer. But read together, I'm getting some wonderful insights into the characters and those insights keep propelling me into the next story.

But having said that, I'm not sure I would have enjoyed the writing as much had I not been able to see the characters evolve. The author has a few stand-alone titles that I'm going to read next to see if I still enjoy her stories.

Kay Stockham said...

Liz, I was about to hold my hand up, too. LOL We all do that, I'm afraid. I've even been known to have similar scenes in separate books because it just seemed to fit at the time and I'd forgotten I'd already created a scene of that nature. Color me embarrassed. I remembered later but it was too late and my (cough) editor pointed it out. Oops!

Wanda, great post. One we all need, pubbed and unpubbed alike. Can't wait to read reader responses.

My pet peeve is repetitive words. I try so hard to weed them out but it's something I struggle with and notice because they draw ME out of a story as a reader. A very popular vampire series nearly drove me insane with repetitive words. But I had to read because my daughter wanted to read the series and at the time she was of an age when I simply refused to hand over an unknown. Still, I really wanted to take a pen to the page and edit. ;) I also kept thinking, "This would never fly at Super." LOL

Character is huge for me. I will follow a character through just about anything so long as I identify with them. If I can't do that...the author has lost me.

Kay

Jeannie Watt said...

Hi Wanda--I love this genre!

I have a favorite author that uses the same unique phrase at least once in each book. The first time I saw it, I thought, wow-- interesting usage. The second time I thought, hmmmm. Since then it's been, please not again, because it draws me out of the story.

I know from experience, though, how hard it is not to repeat. One of my personal issues is too much character frowning. Probably comes from being a teacher and engaging the frown as a warning shot.

Helen Brenna said...

Hi Wanda.

I actually keep a list of words I KNOW I tend to overuse and try to search and destroy before I send it in to my editor.

It seems with every book a new word gets added to that overused list! lol

I don't like being manipulated in books, and that's a hard thing for me to define. It's a feeling I get that, for example, some bad thing happens and it feels like the thing happened just to squeeze a few tears out of me. Only problem is I'm not feeling the tears.

What is that? I'm not empathizing with the characters? The TSTL thing so motivations don't ring true? Hmm.

Anonymous said...

First - helping us (me) understand what is wrong so I can make it right is in no way negative! Always have to know the good and the bad. IMO.

What makes me want to throw a book against the wall? Predictability. I know there will be a sense of this in most books, but to have it so blatant it's like the author didn't try to make it different. Example could be a character with something hurtful in their past that effects their daily living - they break down in tears. Ok so why didn't they break down years ago when the incident occurred? In this example, there was nothing to trigger the breakdown (that I could find - it was just a device to make the character able to fall in love). I was disappointed in this author because her previous books she didn't do this. It's like she got tired of the story and took the easy way out.
Stereotypes too make me not want to read an author again.
In the end, it does come down to voice and the spin the author uses.
And since I've listed my peeves, I guess I need to make sure I'm not guilty of them!!

Marcie

Vicki Essex said...

Great post, Wanda!

I hate the tell don't show writers who describe scenes with too much passive voice and too many throwaway adjectives that instruct the reader how to feel instead of letting them draw those conclusions themselves. Saying "The scene of the accident was carnage" is nowhere near as strong or helpful as "A child's bloody shoe sat in the middle of the road ten feet from the smoldering wreck." (Annnnd now I've grossed myself out.)

I also hate strings of cliches, idioms and metaphors, especially if they're used improperly or use the wrong words. Even if I know what you mean, it's jarring to read sentences like "The verdict was still out on whether the repairs would cost him an arm and a foot." (Not a real sentence I've read, but I've read others like it.)

Julie Hilton Steele said...

My pet peeves are few but there are dents in my walls from the books flying out of my hands in frustration. So many good books are ruined by little things.

#1 Authors who fill their story by repeating lines over and over and over and over and.... Well, you get my point. Sometimes you must make a point by repeating it but there are a lot of filler moments which should be filled with new details that move the story along.

#2 Books that just seem to end because they are at page XXX. I have read three books recently which have a feel of either "hurry and wrap things up" or "the story ends right now". I loved these books until the conclusions which left me wanting. I don't need an epilogue by any means. But I do need to have an ending that is at the same pace as the rest of the story.

Thanks for a great post. It really got me thinking.

Peace, Julie

Ellen Hartman said...

I love to read romance books!

That said, I'm with Vicki. Too much figurative language drives me nuts. (Perhaps this is the technical writer in me?)

I'm also with Helen. I dislike like feeling manipulated.

And just to prove I'm capable of original opinions, I'll add that I don't like heroes who manhandle the heroine. (If some guy grabbed my chin to force eye contact, I'd be much more likely to step on his foot than to fall in love.)

I do love reading romance, though. ;-)

Laney4 said...

I agree with Julie about "books that just seem to end because they are at page XXX". I just read an anthology, and I swear the author was 10 pages over her limit, for example, and just eliminated the previous 10 pages and ended the story. It was TERRIBLE!

I loved, loved, loved the story up until that point - it was one of my favourite stories EVER! In fact, I was reading it at a clinic and LOL several times, which was kind of embarrassing but I did it anyway. I had written down to buy more of this author's books because of the witty dialogue/banter, plus I even shed a tear once not far from where I LOL, so I was shocked to find a really stupid choppy ending (as far as I was concerned). I DID write down to buy a full-length book from that author to see if there was a better ending or not, so here's hoping.

I have learned that I can absolutely hate an author's book (enough to throw it across the room), and yet LOVE the next five of her books. Go figure.

As well, I read a book I thought was BOOORING last year, but I didn't write down why I thought it was boring, so I reread it last week. Imagine my shock when I actually enjoyed it this time around! I don't get it! Maybe it depends on our frames of mind, how many interruptions we have, etc. when reading those pages....

Laney4 said...

I also don't like pages and pages of scenery description. It was beautiful. I get it.

Alyssa Cole said...

Repetition drives me crazy, as well! I just had to stop reading a book because the author kept describing the hero's "crooked smile." Every. Single. Time. It was maddening! It's okay to throw it in there once or twice, but even Stephanie Meyer knew when to cut it with mentioning the crooked smile.

In addition I'll add love that pops up from nowhere. There should be something compelling that draws the characters together, not just they're both hot and happen to meet each other so of course they're in love.

Chelle Sandell said...

Thank you for the editor insight! I've had to quit reading a favorite single title author because the books were becoming too predictable. But one of my pet peeves is to feel rushed at the end of a book as if the author was caught up in the story and simply cut the strings and tied everything together.

liztalley said...

I'm finding this whole subject fascinating...maybe because I'm in the middle of revising.

So, I'm taking out the "crooked smile" and I'm shortening the description (because I LOVE description)and making sure it doesn't sound like I rushed the ending. What else? Yes, I must make sure it's not predictable and that love happens for a reason, not merely because they are hot and bothered. You people know how to write romances!

This is so helpful! :)

Kristina Mathews said...

Great post Wanda,

Thanks for taking the time to help us see what makes a Superromance such a satisfying read. It is helpful to see what you are looking for and what to avoid.

One of my pet peeves is the heroine who is too perfect. Sorry, it's just not a relatable flaw to me. Especially when the forced conflict is having her thrown in with a man who is not perfect, or maybe he's even a slob. Oh the horror!

Wanda Ottewell said...

Hi, Kay,

As much as it pains me to admit, it's true that repetition is really hard to weed out of one's own work. More than once I've made a brilliant (ahem, cough, cough) change to a manuscript only to have the author gently point out I'd introduced repetition! Sigh.

Hey, Jeannie!

I love the notion of using the frown as a warning shot! I want to use that. Of course, it's probably much more effective in person rather than on the phone and through email, LOL.

Hi, Helen,

Oooh, the manipulated feeling is a good one! While it is hard to define, I do know what you mean. I stopped reading a favorite author when I recognized that her stories always went to the place guaranteed to bring me to tears...even if it wasn't necessarily the strongest plot move or consistent with the characters. Even as I was wiping away the tears, I hated feeling that she'd taken a cheap shot.

Wanda Ottewell said...

Marcie, good point. Predictability and steretyping fall along the same continuum for me. In both cases, the author hasn't gotten to know her story or her characters enough to challenge the obvious outcome. I've seen too many instances similar to the example you cite. And like you, I always ask, why now? There has to be a catalyst or trigger that forces the characters to now face the secret from the past. Whew! Rant over, LOL.

Vicki, great comparison! And, yeah, I'm a little creeped out ;-) Specific word choices over generic, vague ones make all the difference in how vivid a scene is...and how engaged the reader is.

And yes, another pet peeve of mine is the overloaded sentence--the one so weighed down by adjectives and adverbs, the meaning and intent of the sentence are lost. I feel somewhat exhausted after I've read one. Instead of sweeping me into the narrative, the author has made me work to sort through the extraneous words to uncover the meaning (sort of like what I just did, LOL).

Wanda Ottewell said...

Julie, I agree! Repetition is a huge issue for me. Overused words, phrases-- Oops! I just repeated myself. To your point, I do suggest to authors when they're repeating a key piece of information that they add new insight to it or reveal even more detail about it.

And the rushed ending...yes, it's a frustrating experience! Authors do have word count ranges they write to (although some publishing programs have more latitude to add or subtract pages) and so if the ending is rushed, it is often literally a case of having only XX pages in which to wrap up the story. As an editor whenever I encounter that situation I try to look for scenes elsewhere in the book that could be tightened so that the pace of the ending matches the rest of the book. It's not always possible to fix, but we do our best.

Diane Garner said...

Thanks for the great post, Wanda. A NYT best-selling author that I enjoy uses some version of the following sentence at least fifty times per book: Anger/panic/terror/joy/love ran/sprinted/skittered/flowed/washed THROUGH her/him. By the tenth time, I'm cringing.

And now you have me worried about a certain kind of repetition I intentionally use in my writing. I like to have a couple of my characters have favorite phrases that they use frequently (like a lot of real people do). I pick something that adds to the characterization, but also allows me to avoid some dialogue tags for that character. I try not to overdo it, but is this device highly annoying also?

Wanda Ottewell said...

To Ellen and the rest of you who are repeating the mantra...good for you! Let's hear another round!

I, too, loathe the manhandling. And the inappropriate touching! What is it about heroes in romance novels who think they can touch heroines' cheeks or brush their hair from their faces within moments of meeting? Some guy does that to me and I'm running. Definitely not falling in love. Excellent original thought, Ellen.

Laney, I strongly encourage you to give the author another try. Anthology stories can be tricky to write at the best of times (fully developed characters, actual plot AND making them fall in love in an extremely reduced word count), and it sounds as though the author simply had too much story. As frustrating as that particular story was, I have to say any author who can make you laugh out loud in public AND cry is a candidate for a keeper.

The rereading experience is always interesting, isn't it? I've avoided rereading some of my favorite books from years ago because I didn't want to be disappointed, which has happened. I'd rather keep the memory of how much I loved them!

Maureen said...

I like to figure things out for myself so I don't want an author to tell me over and over that the heroine is smart or shy or kindhearted or whatever.

Victoria Curran said...

Okay, Diane has forced me to chime in! She's hit on one of my pet peeves--the repetition of some form of "Anger/panic/terror/joy/love ran/sprinted/skittered/flowed/washed THROUGH her/him". It's not a phrase that improves upon repetion, sadly.

(Hi, Wanda!)

Victoria Curran said...

And by repetion, of course I mean repetition!
Sigh.

Wanda Ottewell said...

Good point, Alyssa! I don't like when I can't feel the connection between the hero and heroine (because it's based on circumstance not emotion) and therefore don't believe they're in love. I read this interesting article about how authors sometimes let their genre dictate the actions/reactions of their characters without thought to how those actions fit with the story (sorry, I can't remember the title of the article or the author's name...but it was really good!). For example, characters overreacting or acting out of synch with the circumstances simply because this is a romance story and the hero and heroine must first be antagonistic to each other before falling madly in love. Things have to make sense in the story, you know?

Chelle, I hate having to stop reading a favorite author! Yet life is too short to read books we don't like. One thing this job has taught me is there are many, many talented authors for me to discover. Not reading one opens the opportunity for me to find a new favorite!

The too-perfect characters are a turn-off for me, too, Kristina! While I like to think I have no flaws, my history--not to mention friends, family, coworkers--would indicate otherwise, LOL. And it's hard to relate to a character you can't recognize. I want to see how the characters confront or overcome or even deal with their flaws. That's part of the growth arc for the characters and one of the elements that can hook me into a story.

Good questions, Diane! What I usually suggest for authors is to pick the most important or significant moments to use the character specific gestures. The same for repetition. Pick the moment/scene the repeated word/phrase/gesture has the most impact on the story and keep that one. Get rid of all the other moments where it doesn't make a difference.

You bring up an interesting point with the dialog tags. I confess I'm a minimalist when it comes to tags. In a conversation between two characters, it's usually clear who's speaking, so I tend to cut a lot of tags to avoid repetition. Or I'll encourage the author to insert some inner narrative for the point of view character to break up the dialog and indicate who's saying what. And I generally prefer the simple "said" to other tags because it's less invasive. I find tags such as "reminisced" or "admonished" to be distracting and occasionally redundant because they replicate what was stated in dialog (i.e. "I did it," he confessed).

Wanda Ottewell said...

Maureen, yes, I prefer to assess the characters' qualities based on their words, actions and decisions throughout the story rather than be told they are a particular way.

LOL, on that emotion traversing a body part sentence! You're right, Victoria. It certainly does not improve with repetition!

I have to sign off for the afternoon now. Remember to keep the conversation going!! I'll be back as soon as I get the chance.

Wanda

Julia Broadbooks said...

As a corollary of Maureen's comment, I hate it when the author tells me something about the heroine and then the character spends the whole book disproving it. If she's smart, all her decisions can't contradict that. If she's brave, she can't run from every conflict. If she's tough, she can't wait for the hero to rescue her every time.

In general, a character who does something irrational just to further the plot is really the breaking point for me. I can forgive weak stories and clumsy language for engaging character who I care about. If I can't believe in those characters any more, I move on.

PatriciaW said...

Hi Wanda! Some of my pet peeves have already been mentioned: repetitive words or phrases, stories that end abruptly, obviously manipulative stories.

A sad one for me is when my favorite authors don't grow their craft. There are a few authors who began writing 15 or 20 years ago and still write in that style, which then was okay but now sticks out like a sore thumb with the head-hopping and other techniques that have fallen away. It makes it difficult to read their new stories.

Virginia C said...

Number one, all-time top annoying scene: The heroine nervously licks her lower lip unaware of how erotically stimulating the gesture is to the hero. When this scene is repeated over and over in the same book...arggggh!

Another thing that really, really bothers me is the use of profanity, not just for shock value, but in place of actual, interesting dialogue. There are many, many wonderful words in the English language that can be used to express an emotion or to accelerate the conflict between characters. I have widened my scope as a reader these past few years, stepping way outside my normal fiction box. I have made some great discoveries and found some huge disappointments. Hype sells books, but it cannot give talent and skill to an author. In many cases, the hype far outshines the actual content of the book. I know that this is also a matter of personal choice, and I don't ever have to read a profanity-filled book. However, when obscene language is accepted as meaningful dialogue, and the writer is given accolades as a storyteller, then something is wrong with this picture. This is even more disturbing when this type of book is labeled a "romance". It's definitely not romantic, and not my idea of love. I will have to say that one of the most disturbing uses of "the *F* word" that I have found came from a twelve-year old girl in a category romance. She was the only one in the book who used that word, and she used it numerous times!

Gail Dayton said...

One of my pet peeves in a book is slow pacing. I admit it-- I would rather the plot get in the way than the hero/heroine moan and fret over their issues for pages and pages. Author voice can carry me through, and Real Angst is fine--maybe this is that repetition thing again. If there's nothing happening--no change in the story or characters, then I get impatient and just Want Something To Happen.

I'm trying to think what will actually make me throw a book against the wall--very little, honestly. Usually, I yell at the book. Research mistakes will make me yell. (Texas state football championship played anywhere other than the state capital, for instance. Or pine trees in West Texas. No such thing.) But usually, if I stop reading a book, it's because I got bored. I put it down, and just didn't get around to picking it back up. Sometimes, it's because the plot/story is too convoluted for me to want to bother following.

It's my belief that there are only two rules a writer can never Ever break. 1. Don't bore your reader, and 2. Don't confuse the reader. But maybe that's just from my own reading preferences.

Alyssa Cole said...

These responses are great! Definitely bookmarking this page and keeping these things in mind when reviewing my writing.

Wanda, that article sounds interesting. When the protagonists immediately hate each other for no reason, are completely rude, but yet can't wait to get horizontal--it just rings so untrue! That sounds like an interesting article, I'll have to do some Googling.

And a resounding yes to Ellen. The manhandling is way too common. I understand we need to portray alpha males, but touching the hair or face of a woman you don't know is completely creepy!

Jamie Michele said...

Fun post, Wanda. Thanks to Liz for pointing me to it. I need to stay on top of this blog!

My pet peeve is definitely the Big Misunderstanding. If a simple conversation could solve the problem, then IT'S NOT A PROBLEM, and you need to let those characters have that conversation. Now, if they're unable to talk to each other for some more interesting and more complicated reason than pure stubbornness, then sure, let them sit on it for a bit. Maybe the misunderstanding isn't the problem, but rather a symptom of greater disfunction that needs to be resolved.

But most of the time, the Big Misunderstanding is just a crutch that writers use to build false tension.

I was reading Zoe Archer's fabulous "Warrior" last night, and there was a moment of misunderstanding between the hero and the heroine. But rather than drag it out and irritate her readers, Ms. Archer used the temporary misunderstanding to explore each character's deeper emotions about the topic, examined why they'd misunderstood one another, and then quickly brought them together to clear the air. It enriched the story, tightened the romance, and riveted my attention. Brava!

Debra Salonen said...

Show of hands. Which Superromance author didn't immediately cringe and think, "That's me," when she read Wanda's pet peeve about repetition? I know I did.

Liz, you crack me up. Sure, blame it on the South. ;-) What's my excuse?

I will say that working with an editor raises your reading awareness. I'm not saying it spoils you to expect better, but I know I've shook my head many times after encountering a third or forth rep of a certain word or phrase. I usually murmur to myself, "Wanda woulda caught that."

Thanks for the most excellent post, Wanda.

Deb

Carrie Weaver said...

Oh, Deb, I am so with you about the fact that working with an editor raises our reading awareness. I have a favorite author who had a very distinctive repetitive phrase throughout one book and I thought, "There's no way that would fly at Superromance."

And my biggest peet peeve as a writer is, as Wanda said, the TSL (Too Stupid To Live) character. I have another favorite author who wrote a suspense book where both the hero and heroine should have known better because of their law enforcement backgrounds. And in law enforcement, TSL becomes literal! It spoiled the whole book for me.

Great topic, Wanda!

Carrie

Carrie Weaver said...

LOL, Deb, I forgot to add that my hand is raised as being an author who struggles with reps. Sigh.

Carrie

Nas Dean said...

What a learning experience from the post and from all the Super author's comments! Thanks everyone!

jcp said...

My pet peeve is reading a book from a series and it not saying promiently what the titles of the series are within the first few pages of the book.

MagsK said...

So many of these comments really ring true for me, too! One of my pet peeves is overly frequent mind-blowingly wonderful, adjective-and-adverb-laden sex. In some romances these days, sex is feeling like filler of some kind, and this really risks debasing the genre, I think. On that note, with regard to phrases, I have an aversion to the word 'slick.' this is not an oil spill, after all! That said, I love a good sex scene and feel cheated when they're not given their due attention. But back to the pet peeves so many of us agree upon...whether it's repeated phrases, 'convenience' characters with no real relevance to the story, unnecessary focus on the minutiae of movements and everyday objects etc, how is it that these 'no-no's are getting past the eagle eyes of editors and all too often ending up in print? But to end on a positive note: there's so much good romance out there. Keep up the good work all you superromance authors!

Rogenna Brewer said...

Excuse me while I, um, spill coffee all over myself. Let me just put my cup out of the way, over here.

Yikes, I can see I'm not the only author feeling guilty .

Karina Bliss said...

Yep, everyone's squirming. So the only certainty in life is death, taxes and fighting repetition. My pet peeve is always the one challenging me in the latest project.
In an ongoing series I dislike lots of previous heros/heroines coming on stage just to wave hello to fans of previous books. We want them there, they just have to be doing something really meaningful to THIS story.
Any tips, Wanda?

Snookie said...

I'm with you all on the rushed endings. I just got done reading a book that abruptly ended! Makes it really hard to believe in the HEA. The book was great until the last 3 or 4 pages where everything was rushed.

Another big pet peeve is bad editing. I just recently read several books in a harlequin line (not supers) that had gramatically incoorect sentences (and it wasn't in conversation -- I can handle that), it was double words like "the the", mixing tenses (past and present in the same paragraph)causing me to go back and try to see if I missed something somewhere, switching person from first to third in the same paragraph, and even worse, having to figufre out who is saying what because there was no transistion in the conversation to show you that the person talking had changed causing me to go back and reread to figure out what in the world happened and who was saying what. I do technical editing so I know it's easy to miss stuff when you've read something over and over, but nothing annoys me more than bad grammar.

One of my biggest pet peeves though, are the sex scenes that go on for 10 pgs with very little coversation or meaningfull momments. What's the point???? If I wanted to read erotica I would get an erotic book! Sex that gose on and on and doesn't contribute to the story annoy me, I just end up skipping pages!

I really love to read romance though so even if I am annoyed at something, I still read through and skim and skip over the stuff I don't like! :)

Beth Andrews said...

Great post, Wanda! And I'm so glad to discover I'm not the only author guilty of repetition *g*

I've also had to cull another of your pet peeves from my stories: The heroine stumbling and the hero catching/steadying her :-)

EllenToo said...

Let's try this again....I thought I posted a comment but obviously I didn't.

Anyway I with those who said the didn't like TSTL characters. But there are other things as well...a "hero" who degrades the heroine. A lot of non essential descriptions. A heroine who is afraid of doing anything to save herself and has to depend on the hero totally (I like my heroines to have some spirit and gumption) And as someone else said erotica in a book that is not meant to contain it. And as others said an ending that is rushed.

Anonymous said...

I hate stories with couples such as a (exotic usually) billionaire and a typist/secretary/maid girl. You can have a story with fresh characters...No more brutal, rich guys and poor girls please!

Laura Russell said...

Characters behaving unbelievably makes me close the book. As I'm revising I want to feel that everything my characters do makes sense. Implausible transitions throw me out of a story.

Then some writers really do have a phrase they use in every book. As a reader I think that's OK, but not ideal. It is less thrilling when I remember last heroine said same exact phrase.

When self-editing, I've found words I overuse - can't use them here because I've made a macro that deletes them right after I type them.

Great topic and discussion.

Kimberly Van Meter said...

Great post! As a reader, my pet peeves are definitely the TSTL heroine and the dumb-as-a-bag-of-hair hero. I also hate slow, plodding prose, and unrealistic conversations. But what I really hate are love scenes that make no sense to me. Literally. When I can't picture where the arms and legs are ending up, the author has completely lost me. Ridiculous love scenes irk me, too. Sometimes it seems in the attempt to seem different, authors throw in sex in places a real person wouldn't enjoy. Sex on the stairs? Ouch! Sex on a horse? Yeah right. And sex in the pool — as anyone who has actually attempted this knows — is really difficult because the water washes away any natural lubricant making the experience...um, not as fun. I mean if I'm laughing or cringing while reading a love scene, it's not a good sign.

Estella said...

My biggest peeve is also the TSTL heroine.

Linda Warren said...

Hi Wanda,

Thanks for the great post. And, yes, you made us cringe. LOL And think.

I agree with all the pet peeves mentioned, but if the story is good and pulls me in I can forgive a lot. To me it's about voice and the story. I love romance.

Linda

Linda Henderson said...

I don't like women being talked down to or mistreated in books, that will make me put them down in a hurry.

Jan said...

I enjoyed reading everyone's comments and many of them bother me, too.

I do love reading romances and I want to jump right into the story. One of my pet peeves is the prologue. When I have to read a long prologue before the story begins I sometimes don't even start the book. I keep thinking couldn't the author manage to show me these things during the course of the book?

Virginia said...

My pet peve is when they go into to much detail about maybe a house or something like that pages and pages of detail, enough of that get on with the story.

marybelle said...

I want to be drawn in by the very first sentence. Or at least the first page. Don't make me wait & wait before the story actually begins.

marypres@gmail.com

marycoin77@yahoo.com said...

I like the phrases folks use to show the character, such as "darlin'" from a cowboy, etc., but over use can be annoying. I hate a book who makes me feel the heroine is settling for the hero because she thinks that is all she can get.
-Betty frm the boards

Cynthia said...

cracette5@gmail.com
I'm a newbie with a book about to go out to Beta readers, so this blog is just what I need! Thanks for putting all these pet peeves out there!

I have two peeves. If this is a romance, the couple needs to fall in love before jumping between the sheets! Sure, there are one night stands, but a well developed relationship that justifies the sex is a must in my book.

Also, I write about women becoming stronger and more independent throughout the story so a man who is verbally abusing the heroine has no place in a romance, for *whatever* reason.

There! That felt good!

chey said...

My pet peeve is when current slang is used in historical novels. Takes me right out of the story.

Wanda Ottewell said...

Good morning, everyone!

Wow! You kept a great discussion going. Guess you didn't need my input, huh? I hope everyone who posted after I left on Tuesday will pop back in.

Julia, you cite one of my specific pet peeves: the apparently tough, independent heroine who turns weak and helpless in the presence of the hero. I find that so frustrating. There can be such good conflict and attraction that arises from two strong characters trying to take charge of the situation. Delicious! I often talk to authors about the power dynamic in the relationship: who wins, who loses, under what circumstances, etc. I don't like seeing that dynamic so out of balance that one character constantly comes out on the losing end (such as an independent heroine suddenly being rescued by the hero every third scene). There's no way I'd want that kind of relationship for myself and I think our heroines deserve better, too.

Ooh, Patricia, you mention a big one: head-hopping! I don't like it at all. It seems a bit of a cheat, as though instead of trying to figure out who has the most at stake in a given scene and exercising the discipline to envision the scene from a single point of view and getting deep into a character's view, the author simply lets another character (often one who has no stakes in the situation or one we never see again) pop in to reveal information or make a comment to progress the scene. Plus, whenever I have to pause and figure out who's speaking and why, it takes me out of the story.

And I agree that it's sad and frustrating when a favorite author doesn't evolve her craft. I would even prefer her to start writing a genre I don't read, than to stagnate her craft in patterns established decades ago. Readers evolve so I think authors need to as well. This is one of the long list of things I tend to nag authors about (it's probably becoming clear to you all that I nag, LOL).

Wanda Ottewell said...

Virginia, yes! That's a big one along with its cousin, the biting/chewing of the lip. I remember working on a manuscript a very long time ago where this action seemed to take place every scene, sometimes multiple times in a scene. I kept thinking, for heaven's sake, that poor girl will have no lip left!

Gail, yes, those sitting-thinking scenes can be tedious after a while (those scenes where nothing happens, no decisions are made, no vows reaffirmed, etc.--instead the character sits and thinks with no resolution). If a character is pondering his/her situation, there needs to be tension in the scene, a sense that things are getting worse--or if they're improving, the side effect is something else is being negatively impacted--and that he/she is determined to embark on a different course of action. Every scene needs to advance the plot or reveal character or both. If it doesn't, it shouldn't be in the story.

And I like your rules! Simple and to the point ;-)

Great points, Alyssa! (And if you've bookmarked this page, you'll actually being reading my late posts...excellent!)

Jamie, I'm not sure I can add anything (and yet, I will)! You're correct that the misunderstanding can't be the crux of the conflict. Yes, a temporary one that leads to deeper understanding of other issues can be effective. Otherwise, the characters need to talk it out!

Thanks, Deb! Glad to see I've brainwashed, er, influenced you, LOL!

Carrie, your post reminds me of another niggling thing that irritates me. I don't like when characters on their jobs are doing such generic and unspecified tasks that it doesn't feel authentic. One book I read had the heroine working in an office and her duties didn't match any office--corporate or otherwise--that I've worked in. It seemed obvious the author hadn't done the research to know what a person in said industry working in a company of X size would actually do in a day.

Wanda Ottewell said...

Hi, Nas! Glad you enjoyed the conversation.

JCP, yes, it is annoying to not be able to easily put your hands on the other titles in a series. As I had mentioned in another comment, I discovered a series by starting to read one of the later books. Fortunately, the author's website listed the books in order so I was able buy that first one and start at the beginning.

Mags, you pose a really good question about how things get past editors. Sometimes there are bigger issues to tackle a manuscript--getting the plot to come together, giving the characters depth and complexity, etc.--that the little pieces can slip through the cracks. In some cases the editor has to make a judgment call about addressing a particular problem knowing if she starts to change/fix it at the beginning, there will be a cascading effect throughout the manuscript until she almost rewrites the story. And mixed up in all of that are the usual time constraints and deadline pressures that Victoria talked about in her post. Everyone does their best in given circumstances but...

Hi, Rogenna! Hope the, um, spill wasn't a nasty one.

Karina, wow. That question puts me on the spot. Within a series it is a really tricky balance to give readers a peek into the ongoing lives of characters from previous books without distracting from the current book. (Personally, I loathe having previous characters step onto the page then dumping a several paragraphs long recap of what happened in their stories.) One of the problems with previous characters is that they are really familiar to the author--after all, their story has been told, they've worked through their issues--and it's really easy to write about them. Thus, they can take over the scene.

Here is one guideline I can offer. Previous characters have to have a vital role to play in a given scene, otherwise there's no reason to include them. So maybe they appear to complicate the relationship between our hero and heroine. Or maybe their role is to be confidante and we get "caught up" in their lives because they use their own lives as cautionary tales to the hero or heroine.

I thought of another tip. When previous characters do step onto the page, they should be treated as any other secondary character would be. So the reader shouldn't be given any more or any less information to flesh out the character than would ordinarily be given. Does that make sense?

Wanda Ottewell said...

Snookie (and Mags--you mentioned this too!), great point about the sex scenes. Done well, they're fab. Done not so well... Really easy to skip over, right?

Ah, Beth! You've solved the mystery for me, LOL. Ever since your comment in my last blog about the pet peeve, I've been trying to figure out what was in one of your stories that I didn't like. And, yes. It is the stumble or collision. I'm amazed at how many characters in romance stories collide with each other--it doesn't happen to me that often and I'm not always the most graceful person! Whenever I encounter one in a manuscript, I suggest the author look for other ways to increase the physical awareness or heighten the sensual tension.

EllenToo, yes! The hero who treats the heroine with disrespect? I'm definitely not interested in reading that book.

Anonymous, your post reminds of that discussion a little earlier about stereotypes. If an author can break out of the predictable patterns, a story can be wonderful. But if not...well, the story is tired.

Laura, love the macro idea! What a very clever way to eliminate repetition.

Oh, yes, those they're-really-doing-what? sex scenes are ridiculous. Excellent point, Kimberly!

Estella, Linda and Linda...I'm trying not to repeat myself, so I'll simply say, yes!

Jan, funny you should mention the prologue. Personally, I'm not a big fan, but I work with people who like them. In many cases I find they're are not well done--as you say, the events or characters are not engaging enough to pull me into the story so I inevitably put part of my brain to work figuring out how to integrate the prologue into the rest of the story.

Virginia, I agree. I don't like too much setting description to distract me from the story. I really want to know the characters and how they're reacting to the changing events around them.

Marybelle, excellent point about the first page! I want to be pulled into the present day of the story. Don't put a lot of back story and setup information in those first few pages. Get me into these characters and what's happening now.

Betty (from the boards), that's a really intriguing point you bring up. Yes, the heroine should not be settling! The hero should be everything she deserves and then some.

Cynthia, congrats on getting your manuscript to this stage! Good luck!!

Chey, yes! Modern sensibilities, idioms, etc. have no place in historical novels.

Thanks everyone for being patient and more thanks for such an excellent discussion!

Til next time,
Wanda

Karina Bliss said...

Thanks, Wanda, your comments very helpful.
Karina

Tammy Yenalavitch said...

Hi Wanda
I gave this one some thought. I never stop reading an author after one bad book. Everyone deserves a second chance. I try to be open, but I just don't like paranormal stories. I might read a vampire story, but I stay away from the rest. I also do not like characters that are abusive (verbally or physically)

I do not like rushed endings or when complicated issues are resolved too quickly. Helpless heroines and characters that do stupid things as plot devices.

Autumn said...

Oh, am I glad to finally have a fully functioning computer again and be able to get back on the internet! Mine was trashed by an evil virus that defeated all firewall/antivirus on Sunday, I have a little one I use while travelling, I call it my toy computer. But all I can do is write (thank goodness!) and check email (frustratingly slowly).

I missed a fabulous post and discussion here.
Lots to think about!

Have to confess, my heroines tend to nervously bite their lip too much (even so much that they comment it's sore!) They also have emotions that skitter/run/rampage through them. Oops!

Besides TSTL characters and nasty unlovable heroes, my pet hate is sex scenes that are just a description of mechanics and sensation, with no emotional impact or change in the relationship as a result. And the unbelievable ones, sex in impossible places and positions.

Our writing group has a favorite story by a writer we love, which we keep referring back to as our example of what NOT to do as an unpublished writer. The previously virgin heroine has sex at least fifteen times in various positions within three days. I know this is fantasy, but ouch!

Anita Joy said...

Been away so popping back to all the posts I missed... Great post,. It is always so interesting to hear what not to include.

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